Frog Position
Dancing Smart Newsletter,
February 6, 2004
Hello everyone,
Seven more weeks until spring! That’s the sign at a farm stand that I passed by yesterday during my travels. I can’t wait!
Today’s question is from New York State. Good question, Joanne!
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I attended two of your classes at the Dance Teacher Convention in NYC in August. One of the classes was about turn out. You briefly mentioned that the frog position was not useful. (Lying on abdomen with feet touching in a diamond shape). Does this position serve the dancer any purpose? My 10 yr old daughter has a dance teacher that has the students stay in this position for a few minutes each class. She finds it very uncomfortable.
Thanks, Joanne
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Sometimes it is hard for dancers to know when something is uncomfortable, if it is a good feeling or not. Often when you are trying something new, or working in a way that your body is not accustomed to, you will feel some discomfort.
This is one of those times, though, that your daughter’s discomfort is unnecessary and a signal that her body does not appreciate the stress being put on it.
You remembered correctly that I stated that the frog position, lying on your stomach, or on your back, was not useful for increasing turnout. In fact it can be injurious to your knees.
Let’s think this one through. When you are lying on your stomach your hips are in extension. Think about standing in first position and where the majority (99.9% of the dance population) of our feet point. Somewhere between straight front, and straight side. You may also remember that I have only tested 3 dancers who in my 25 years of working with dancers had a turnout of 180 degrees.
When you are lying on your stomach and begin to take your legs out into that diamond shape a couple of things happen. One, if you are tight in the hip flexors you are going to begin to arch your back and lift your hips slightly off the floor. This puts more pressure on the inside of your knee which is made more vulnerable by the fact that you have it bent and are trying to put your feet together and on the floor.
The knees is in an extreme torque — you are putting strain on the ligaments and cartilage — not something I want to do with any dancer, and certainly not with a dancer who is growing.
There will be dancers who have more ‘natural’ turnout, which is called a retroverted hip structure, who will be able to lie on their stomach and begin to take the knees out to the side without discomfort, but then we are still asking them to torque at the knee and bring the feet down towards the floor — still not good for the knee — ever. It is the equivalent of standing in extreme pronation, with the foot overly turned out and the knee twisted outwards, because unless you have 180 degrees of turnout, you cannot anatomically create that position at the hip.
Doing the frog position lying on your back and opening up your thighs into the diamond shape is less injurious to the dancer’s body. If you are just resting in that position you will feel some stretching happening to the inner thigh area in the adductor muscles. Do NOT ever allow anyone to even gently push the knees open in this position. I have had dancers who have had either a deep adductor muscle torn, or strained the iliopsoas tendon when someone pushed their knees open.
Old habits die hard, even in the dance world, and I am not sure when or where this myth that it helps your turnout got started. I do know that it is still around as is confirmed by your email.
There are so many other efficient ways to work with your turnout and perhaps I will address some of them in upcoming newsletters.
As far as your daughter and her teacher -I would inform the teacher that after talking with a dance medicine specialist it was advised that when it comes time to do the frog position that your daughter be allowed to roll over on her back and do it in the supine position (and take it for the gentle stretch that it will provide — tell your daughter to keep her lower back lengthened so her back doesn’t arch when she does it) If her knees feel uncomfortable doing the frog position on her back, then — no more frog position for her. She’ll just have to stretch something else during that time in class.
Kudos to your daughter for recognizing that it didn’t feel right and for you for researching further.
Warm regards,
Deborah
"Education is the key to injury prevention"
DeborahVogel@thebodyseries.com